Wednesday, March 10, 2010

Sixth Seal Rapture

rapture, seal, blood, moon, bible, prophecy, end, end times, end of the world, sixth, prewrath, pre wrath, christian, jesus, clouds, armageddon

Did you know that the rapture will not occur until after the sixth seal is opened? This may be different from what you have been told all of your life, but it is a conclusion from scripture that I can easily show you is true. In 1 Thes 4:15 – 5:2 we read; 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.



In this passage God the Holy Spirit speaking through the apostle Paul is teaching the Thessalonians about the rapture and calls the event “the day of the Lord.”

Fact: The day of the Lord is when the rapture occurs.

In Acts 2:20 we read “The sun shall moon shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come."

Fact: The day of the Lord occurs after the moon is turned to blood.

The moon is turned to blood after the sixth seal is opened as described in Revelation 6:12. “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood"

Fact: The moon is turned to blood after the sixth seal is opened.

Let’s put all the facts together in chronological order to see the conclusion.

Fact: The moon is turned to blood after the sixth seal is opened.
Fact: The day of the Lord occurs after the moon is turned to blood.
Fact: The day of the Lord is when the rapture occurs.
Conclusion: The rapture occurs after the sixth seal is opened.

This conclusion is confirmed in Rev 6:15,16 where we clearly see a description of the rapture; And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: At this point in time the rapture has occurred and all the people of the world have seen the Lord in the air, that is why they say “hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne.”

This is also the time at which God’s wrath begins. It is that simple; the rapture occurs after the sixth seal is opened. Remember “the truth shall set you free.” By the way the sixth seal is opened during the persecution of the antichrist, which begins after the abomination of desolation at the midpoint of the last 7 years. That places the rapture at an unknown time between the midpoint and the end of the last 7 years. For an in depth study of the end times read the FREE prophecy book; The Coming Epiphany.

76 comments:

  1. William,

    I must challenge your very first "fact." You write: "Paul is teaching the Thessalonians about the rapture and calls the event “the day of the Lord.”" I don't think this is a fact.

    The day of the Lord is an extended time that covers the entire 70th week of Daniel, and continues on after the 70th week is finished. I think Paul is telling us that the rapture happens FIRST, then the day of the Lord can begin. Not that the rapture is a part of the day of the Lord, but it is the "trigger" for the day of the Lord. As Paul wrote, "sudden destruction" comes on THEM, not on us. We are caught away before the sudden destuction comes. I think the great earthquake (sudden destruction) is caused by the dead in Christ rising; then we who are alive and in christ rise an instant later, while the sudden destruction of the earthquake hits those left behind.

    Then you write, "By the way the sixth seal is opened during the persecution of the antichrist, which begins after the abomination of desolation at the midpoint of the last 7 years." This is total falacy, as John does not even start the 70th week until the 7th seal. John does not get to the midpoint of the week until the 7th trumpet. Yes, the rapture IS before God's wrath, but it is also before the 70th week - according to John.

    Coop

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  2. Coop

    You wrote "The day of the Lord is an extended time that covers the entire 70th week of Daniel, and continues on after the 70th week is finished. I think Paul is telling us that the rapture happens FIRST, then the day of the Lord can begin." Well if what you say is true then why does God tell us that the moon must be turned to blood before the Day of the Lord? Acts 2:20. The rapture is the first event of the Day of the Lord and it starts after the moon is turned to blood--the sixth seal.

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  3. Hi, William -

    I have also concluded that the next rapture event will happen at the sixth seal. I see nothing that requires that all seven seals be opened during Daniel's 70th week, however. I believe the four horsemen were turned loose a while ago, perhaps early in the 20th century. Certainly the blood of martyrs has been flowing for the past hundred years.

    I have also concluded that the next rapture event will necessarily be the END of the flow of this river of martyr's blood.

    I do not see the logic or necessity of placing the rapture event Paul spoke of in the middle of Daniel's 70th week. I see the seals as leading up to the beginning of that week, our departure, the confirmation of the covenant (see my comment on 5 Doves this coming Monday, November 1) and the escalating judgments and wrath of God being poured out - first to try those who dwell upon the earth (seven trumpets) and then to punish (seven vials).

    I expect the party will start in earnest in about a week.

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  4. Hello Stevekerp

    Thanks for your comment. In the past I have thought and prayed long and hard about the scenario that you propose. However I have concluded that it cannot be correct because for one reason Jews and Christians are persecuted by the antichrist. the rapture is a rescue from that persecution. Scripture is clear that the antichrist does not begin his 3.5 year reign and persecuting until after the abomination of desolation, which occurs shortly after the midpoint. Therefore the rapture does not occur until after the midpoint.

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  5. I also came to this conclusion about 15 years ago from my own bible studies, but since then have come to know that most folks call this the Pre-wrath position, since Christians are raptured after the persecution of Satan, which results in refinement, but before the Wrath of God.

    As you mention, there will be another holocaust for the Jews worse than the last one. Christians will have the opportunity to help Jews during that time and show them the face of Jesus in doing so. Who would want to be raptured out before such an opportunity?

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  6. Lori

    Thanks for your comments. Yes it is called the Pre-wrath theory and it will be a time of great witnessing opportunity!

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    1. Hey Bill

      Hope that's allright I call you by your first name?

      Like many others I was fed the pre-trib by my WOF teachers.

      I fired them and decided to find out myself.

      I waffle between the 6th seal and the 7th trumpet but lean to 6th seal due to Rev. 7:9-14, where the elder is in shock of who and where all these "innumerable" people came from and he receives his answer. The Great Tribulation.

      Ok, my friend points to Matthew 24 and claims the rapture occurs after the Great Tribulation and the angels "gather the elect"

      Who are these "elect"

      You and me? Or those who receive Christ after the rapture?

      Or another answer?

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    2. You are correct the elect are us. Why do the people hide in the rocks at the Sixth Seal? Because they see his face. Why? Because He appeared at the rapture. So Sixth seal it is.

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  7. Hi All,

    This is according to my understanding and studies:
    1. Seal 1-5 gets opened (possibly all opened already)
    2. Sixth seal opened (coming of Planet X/Nibiru)
    3. 144,000 israelites sealed for prootection
    4. Rapture

    The rapture will take place before the antichrist can reveal himself. This is found in the following scriptures:
    2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

    Then the 7th seal will be opened.

    Be blessed.

    Gerhard

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  8. Gerhard

    I cover that verse in Chapter 4 of The Coming Epiphany.

    Identifying the Restrainer
    Yet another argument put forth by pre-trib adherents is that they say that the Holy Spirit is removed before the antichrist is revealed; and since the Holy Spirit indwells Christians, they will be removed also. They draw this conclusion from 2 Thessalonians 2:6¬–7: “And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.” They have made the assumption that it is the Holy Spirit who is the restrainer and that when He is removed—and Christians with Him—the antichrist will be revealed.
    This is an incorrect assumption, for the Holy Spirit is recorded as still being on the earth indwelling believers during the last days of the 70th Week. This is clearly evident in Joel 2:

    And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come. (Joel 2:28–31)

    To those of you that think the restrainer is the Holy Spirit, I would like for you to ponder a couple of questions. How can the Holy Spirit still be on earth during the 70th Week if the verse says the restrainer (Holy Spirit) is removed? And if He is removed, will He leave and come back? One individual told me that the Holy Spirit is not really removed, but just His restraining power; and after His restraining power is removed, that is when the rapture occurs and the Holy Spirit reverts back to His Old Testament mode. In responding to this, I would like to call your attention to Acts 2:16–21:

    But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    After Pentecost, the apostles were indwelt with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in foreign languages. Peter likened this to what the prophet Joel said would happen during the 70th Week. Therefore, Peter establishes the fact that believers will be indwelt with the Holy Spirit during the 70th Week in the same way that they were after Pentecost. Thus, we can conclude that the Holy Spirit will be on the earth during the 70th Week and will indwell believers in the same way that the apostles were indwelt. In fact, the scripture passages above indicate that not only will the Holy Spirit be here and indwell believers, but He will manifest His power in a greater way than He is being manifested today, working signs, wonders, and miracles through believers.
    So who is the restrainer that is removed before the antichrist is revealed? I suggest that the restrainer is the Archangel Michael. Consider these two passages:

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    1. I am sorry but have to disappoint many of you. Why??
      Simply because THE RAPTURE IS NOT AT THE SIXTH SEAL!!!
      I have done myself the same mistake years ago but I thank HIM that showed me the truth.
      Please check the Scripture and not my words!!!
      Read the seventh trumpet please and also read carefully the sixth seal!!!
      Because of the devastation caused by the sixth seal scores of people will lose their lives and in these numbers will be many that have the Lord in their heart.
      Stephan

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    2. It is scripturally impossible for the rapture to be at the seventh trumpet, the trumpets are part of God's wrath, the rapture is before God's wrath.

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    3. Nope. This is the deceiving work of the evil one who is whispering to those who listen that in Heaven you can get walking on flowers. Isn't the Scripture saying that God will refine us as He is refining the gold in fire?
      Pre tribulation rapture is not real. Let's see: "..that there should be delay no longer, but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets. Rev 10 : 6,7.
      This is a wake up call.
      See also Rev 7 : 14 "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
      Please Check the Scriptures.
      Stephan

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    4. Also, please, be aware that the wrath of God are not the trumpets! but the bowls!!! Check in the Scripture : "Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, "Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth." If you would find in the Scripture somewhere "the trumpets of God's wrath" yes I might believe it!
      Also more than a decade and a half ago when I read "There is a new world coming" written by Hal Lindsay I met first time this pre-trib rapture theory because he graduated the Dallas theological seminar in the US where they were teaching this theory. So, let's be careful. It is better to prepare for the storm than to believe that the storm is not going to reach you and when it comes you are not prepared. Isn't it?
      Stephan

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    5. The wrath of God starts at the sixth seal, not the the bowls.

      15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

      16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

      17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

      I do not believe in the pre trib theory. Christians will go through the tribulations of seals 1-5, the we are delivered before God's wrath starts after the 6th seal is opened.

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    6. The Restrainer is Micheal.

      Other possibilities are government(s), the Church or the Holy Spirit.

      Once I considered who restrains satan now and his angels then the answer was obvious. Michael will stand down and satan will be allowed his way for a period of time.

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    7. I agree and state that in The Coming Epiphany

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  9. what about those who become christians during the tribulation period. I know I am witnessing right now to many and will leave things for them to read. I told them that if they are left behind, I will have a message for them at our home. I have also been witnessing to them and I tell them right now what they need to do now to get ready. I am sharing the plan of salvation now with friends and loved ones. I believe that the christians that are here during the tribulation time are the ones that will be persecuted by the anti-christ.

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  10. Katherine

    Yes there will be people who become Christians after the rapture--but scripture tells us that all who take the mark of the beast will be damned to hell--so they must not take the mark--be chipped.

    Keep up the witnessing--I am sure that God will use it in their lives.

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    1. I can not believe John MacArthur claims not all who take the mark will be damned?

      I was shocked to hear him teach this on a youtube video

      Of course, I believe he is a pre-tribber as well?



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    2. Yes that is shocking seeing that it is so clear in scripture

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  11. If you go to torahteacher.com and watch the video on Elenin. It is rather long, but near the end of it they show what Elenin will do in Virgo, as described in Rev.6:1-12 The woman clothed with the sun in travail to give birth. The sun will be darkened and the moon blood red during Sept. 26-29, Sept. 28-29 is Feast of Trumpets, The last Trumpet could be the Rapture and is only 25-26 days away! Wouldn't that be a joy.

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  12. Gave the wrong verses, it should have been Rev.6:12-17 and is the sixth seal.

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  13. The Earth will go back to a 360 day year and a 30 day Lunar month after Elenin and the Large Brown Draft Star of large Planet pass. The Earth will wobble or stagger like a drunkard ISa. 24:18-23 is also a description of the 6th seal with less detail on the woman, but more detail on the corruptor of the Earth and its Kings. And detail on what happens to the Earth as the Destroyer passes.

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  14. William, looking at the Greek in taking out of the way doesn't mean that he has left. Instead it means that He will no longer hold it back. I used to think it always meant that the Holy Spirit was going to be taken from the earth, but looking at the Greek recently I have found that this is not true. The Holy Spirit will still be here, just not holding it back.

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  15. I believe the seals may not be a part of the seven year tribulation.

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    1. The saels have to be part of the last 7 years because the antichrist comes to rule at the midpoint and then institutes the mark--he only is alotted 3.5 years to rule after which he is destroyed at Armageddon. The institution of the mark and persecution of Jews and Christians is seal 5 thus it is within the last 7 years.

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  16. Revelations to John 14:16 = rapture

    However, additional rapture at 14:19 of the grapes!!!!

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  17. if you follow harvest cycles in the old testament, you see several harvest feasts. Unleavened bread (at Passover) (barley harvest), Feasts of Weeks (at Pentecost)(wheat harvest), and then finally the grape harvest at Feast of Tabernacles. These are also the three times a year that the Lord commands ALL men must appear before God. Deuteronomy 16. From reading Revelation, I see a few "harvests". I see a rapture of multitudes from every nation in white robes shortly after the 6th seal is opened and the great earthquake hits and the 144,000 are sealed by God. I see a harvest when, in chapter 14:14 the son of God is on a cloud with a sickle and "harvests the earth" after an angel warns the world not to take the mark of the beast. An angel with another sickle follows the Son of God and "swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes, and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath".
    Now some people have said that the rapture occurs after John writes the letters to the churches when chapter 4 starts where the voice says to John "Come up here (heaven) and I will show you what must take place after this". I don't necessarily agree with that thought but that is what the church tried to teach me is the rapture...I don't see it that way.

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    1. Thank you for your remarks on the 3 harvests. That was very eye opening for me.

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  18. I believe the 6th seal could be the rapture, after we/they lived to see the miraculous gog-magog war. If we are there at the opening of the first seal then we are not with the lamb as promised. Unless God is just leaving that out for some reason. After the sixth seal everyone seems to be there with God and the LAmb, and ALL the angels with the 144,000 jews on earth safely sealed.

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  19. Does anyone not believe in Acts 2:38? God will rapture out his church before the Tribulation Period. The Tribulation Period is not intended to purify the church. Only the blood of Christ cas wash us clean of the iniquity and sin. The Tribulation Period is referred to as the time of "Jacob's trouble", and God will supernaturally deliver the Jewish people. We must be careful to distinguish between God's plan for the church, and His plan for Israel. Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

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    1. Acts 2:38 says Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

      I think you may have been referring to Rev 3:10--from The Coming Epiphany p.66

      What About Revelation 3:10?
      Some pre-trib adherents make further claims, citing Revelation 3:10 as evidence that God will not only keep the Christian from His wrath, but will also keep them from the hour of temptation—that is, the entire 70th Week: “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” However, a careful examination of the Greek used in this passage actually shows that the passage supports the view that believes that the rapture will occur at the sixth seal.
      Robert Van Kampen, in The Rapture Question Answered Plain & Simple, has made a thorough analysis of this verse. Let us examine a few excerpts from that section.

      When the underlying Greek text is studied carefully, comparing Scripture with Scripture, we will discover that the “hour of testing” refers specifically to that time associated with antichrist’s persecution. . . . More importantly we will see that the Greek words underlying our English translations argue that this terrible time of testing cannot be the wrath of God, but must be the wrath of satan. . . . If the Greek word peirasmos, as used in the Revelation 3:10 passage, is compared to its use in other New Testament passages, we will see that the “hour of testing” cannot refer to the wrath of God but, quite the opposite, to the wrath of satan. . . . They all say the same thing: satan is the source of all peirazo, not God. Like the logical argument, the biblical argument from scripture demonstrates that the “hour of testing” in Rev. 3:10 cannot refer to the wrath of God but, by definition, must be the wrath of satan.

      Another phrase in Revelation 3:10 that we need to consider is “will keep thee from.” The Greek phrase used here is tereo ek. Van Kampen has this to say about that phrase:

      Tereo ek, is used in conjunction, can only refer to guarding or protecting those who persevere while they are within the sphere of danger, and then bringing them safely out from the midst of that danger. Thus the meaning of the text is clear. Tereo ek should be translated, “a watchful protection within the sphere of danger, with a safe deliverance out from the midst of it.

      Combining the analysis of the Greek into a translation of Revelation 3:10 yields a rendering that shows that the Christian will not be spared from the great tribulation, but will be rescued out of it:

      Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will rescue you out of the midst of the hour of satan’s temptation, the great tribulation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

      So the analysis of the Greek in Revelation 3:10 does not support a pre-trib view, but supports a pre-wrath view of the rapture.

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    2. Do you yourself believe that we must be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost to make it to Heaven?
      No man, knoweth the day nor hour in which Jesus will return for his people.

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  20. Scripture tells us that we must be baptized by the Holy Ghost--not water baptism to be saved. We receive and are baptized by the Holy Ghost at Salvation, which is through faith.

    Was the thief on the cross saved? Yes, Jesus said that he would be with Him in paradise that day. was he baptized in water? NO. But he was baptized in the Holy Ghost and saved when he placed his faith in Christ on the cross.

    Salvation is by grace through faith alone.

    You are correct that scripture tells us that no one knows the day or hour of the Lord's return. Just because scripture tells us that the rapture will occur after the Sixth Seal is opened does not mean we know the day or hour, because we do not know when the Sixth Seal will be opened.

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  21. Well I'm sorry to disagree, but, Jesus himself was baptized in water!!! Matthew 3:16, And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him.

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  22. Yes Jesus was baptized with water--but He was already saved. Baptism is something that every Christian should do if they can, in obedience to God and as a sign to the world that you are already saved.

    Please keep the comments on this post to be specifically related to the Sixth Seal rapture.

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  23. In Matthew 24, Jesus Christ eliminates any possibility of a rapture.


    Matthew 24: 29 - 31

    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,


    Christ is stating: right after the 5th Seal is complete,
    which is The Great Tribulation, The 6th Seal starts,
    The Heavenly signs.

    29 and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,


    These are types of heavenly signs of the 6th Seal.


    29 and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    This is at the end of the 6th Seal and starting the 7th Seal.

    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall


    This is at the end of the 7th Seal and the time of the
    last Trump, the 7th Trump. This is The beginning of the
    Return of Jesus Christ to Earth. Christ is returning in
    Great power and Glory which the whole world will see at the
    same time.

    30 all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming


    The whole earth sees and realizes what is taking place,
    never has any man, much less the entire earth, witnessed
    the Awesome Power and Glory of Almighty God
    which The Father will bring to bear around the earth at the
    return of Jesus Christ.And Christ comes in the Clouds.
    Exactly as He left after His Resurrection, in the clouds.


    30 In the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they


    Here is where the concept of a rapture vanishes.


    31 shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


    As shown in the scriptures above, the 5th, 6th and now
    the 7th Seals are complete, except for the 7 Last Plagues
    which Christ will administer.
    Christ is returning in Great Power and Glory AND THEN He
    sends His Angels, at the 7th Trumpet, to gather His Elect
    from the 4 winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


    Why, if Christ is bring His Elect from the Third Heaven,
    does He have to gather them from the 4 winds and from one
    end of the first heaven to the other? Remember Christ
    statement in John 14, “that where I am you may be also”.
    If they all come together from the Third Heaven one would
    just assume they would all be together. But Christ has to
    “gather” them from one end of heaven to the other and from
    the 4 winds which are in the atmosphere of earth? Are they
    human or Spirit?

    Keep in mind that Seals 5, 6, and 7 are complete, and the
    Elect are still on earth either as the dead in Christ or
    alive. It clearly states Christ is coming with great power
    and glory and then He sends His Angels to gather His Elect.
    This is not a rapture.

    For there to be a rapture it requires Christ, first, to come quietly and snatch away the Elect. Which produces this question, are there two sets of the Elect, and two returns of Christ? When He comes to earth as King of king and Lord of lords must He AGAIN gather together His Elect from the 4 winds? This would be two resurrections of the same people, the Saints?

    This is just one of hundreds of problems caused by trying to make a rapture from scriptures that proclaim three resurrection. In Revelation it plainly states ‘This is the First Resurrection”, when a ‘first’ is shown, it demands a Second and with God three is the number of finality.

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    1. One of the ways that we test any theory is to see if the theory agrees with all of scripture. Your theory violates many. The only theory that agrees with all of scripture is the rapture after the great tribulation and before the wrath of God starts. Please refer to The Coming Epiphany for a full explanation of this.

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  24. I've noticed that those who believe the rapture is at the very end think the seals and trumpets take place at the same time. Clearly, they are one after the other in chronological order. I believe the rapture may be at the sixth seal, but not sure. If so, there is going to be terrible persecution beforehand. It's either us being arrested and killed or the Jews who are warning others. Perhaps both?

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  25. I would like to suggest the book Revelation Revealed by Jack Van Impe. It's a step by step explanation of the book and it's easy to understand. I have heard many teachings on the church being raptured in chapter 4 of Revelation and then the seals are opened. The seals are part of the tribulation which the church is not here for, thank God.

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    1. God never promised to remove us from tribulation, just His wrath. His wrath starts after the 6th seal is opened, that is also when the rapture occurs. Oh, BTW the church will be persecuted by the antichrist after Seal 5 is opened--read Rev 12 and 13.

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    2. The seals are God's wrath. The rapture will happen before the seals are opened and before the anti-Christ will be revealed. The anti-Christ will persecute the ones who get saved during the Tribulation. The church is not mentioned after chapter 4 of Revelation and that is because we are in heaven. We are not here at all for the Tribulation. After the 7 year Tribulation, we come back to rule and reign with Jesus. I highly recommend Jack Van Impe's book Revelation Revealed.

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    3. The seals are not God's wrath. seal 5 is the persecution of Jews and Christians by the antichrist. Is part of God's wrath to persecute himself? Not hardly.

      It is not up to us to decide when God's wrath starts. look to His Word.

      And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

      17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

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  26. No one up until the early 1800 ever heard about a Rapture or a 7 year tribulation. The 7 year tribulation was made up by a Jesuit Priest by the name of Riberas. The Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest have been infiltrating protestant churches since Martin Luther revealed to the world how they were being deceived.
    Daniel 9:27
    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
    Matthew 26:27-28 (KJV)
    27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
    28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
    Daniel is prophesying 500 years earlier about Jesus starting with His baptism, crucifixion and the Apostles spreading the gospel not some futuristic 7 year tribulation.
    Theologians believe one week in the bible means 7 years, so that is where some people get the 7 year tribulation from.
    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease means Jesus was baptized at the beginning of 7 years and then started his ministry.
    Then 3-1/2 years later he was crucified. So because of the Blood of Jesus, blood sacrifice and offerings were no longer required. The Old Covenant was done and the New Covenant began.
    The next 3-1/2 years, the True Apostles went out to spread the Gospel of Christ to the Jews. But they wouldn’t believe so God set them aside for a while and sent the True Apostles out to spread the Gospel of Christ to the Gentiles.
    Jesus is confirming this in Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
    So what the devil has done is made people believe there is a 7 year tribulation where he will rule before Christ comes back. He is trying to steal the glory of Jesus that Daniel prophesied about.
    Jesus did not say anywhere in the bible that we would be raptured out of here before the perilous times. He said he would protect us and that we WOULD HAVE TRIBULATIONS AND PERSECUTIONS.
    Jesus is only coming back once and those that believe in him will rise up to meet him in the air. No second chances.
    Jesus said He would come back when it is like the days of Noah before the flood. When people didn’t believe in God and had turned to other gods. Just like it is now. Amazing how much God has been removed from society in the last 50 years.
    Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him (the devil) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

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    1. You are right that Jesus is only coming back once to the earth. He will however rescue the righteous from the attack and persecution of the antichrist at the sixth seal. This was believed by many of the early church fathers. You are correct that the incorrect pre trib view came about in the 1800s. I cover these topics in The Coming Epiphany.

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  27. Are the tribulation saints part of the body of Christ/Church?

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  28. Are you aware that the 4th Seal is World War Three?
    25% of earth, over 1.5 billion people, are at war, and many die.
    This occurs before the Great Tribulation, the 5th Seal.

    One other point for those wanting to get raptured to escape martyrdom: to make this point remember the parable of the pound?
    The men each got one pound one returned 10, 5, and then the guy returned his one, which one would God allow to receive martyrdom?
    The man with 10 pounds.

    Martyrdom is God's Congressional medal of Honor. Were not all but one of the Apostles Martyred? How about John the Baptist?
    And then there is Jesus Christ.

    Martyrdom is for only the cream of the crop. But it is very understandable that those lacking faith would want to escape before the Day of the Lord and the Wrath of God. They have not the faith to trust God for protection from His Wrath upon the Gentiles. There were 3 thrown in to the fiery oven and they came out without even the smell. But God has probably lost power and can not physically protect His Saints today - right?

    The rapture is a lie of Satan. The First Resurrection to Eternal Life occurs at the end of the Last Trump, the 7th Trump.
    Read; at the pouring out of the 7th of the Seven Last Plagues God from Heaven proclaims IT IS DONE.

    The Wrath of God is then filled to the full, Christ returns meeting His Saints in the clouds , the kings ruling with Him on earth, and their feet land that day on the mount of olives.


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    1. WWIII is most likely seal 2, seal 4 is most likely a pandemic and includes the number of dead from the combo of the first 4 seals--the 91 day period after which the antichrist arises. Seal 5 is the persecution of Jews and Christians and many will be martyred. The seal 6 where Christians are rescued via the rapture and God's wrath begins. Seal 7 the raptured saints are seen in heaven.

      The firery furnace was not God's wrath but satan's. The trump at the rapture is in reference to the feast of trumpets.

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  29. Do you want to be the bride or you want to be the bride's friend?
    This is the basic question.
    We can choose to indulge ourselves into dreaming about the rapture and that in those unique moments will be flying like eagles, but, will we?? How humble was apostle Paul: "But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified." 1 Cor 9 : 27.
    How could we claim that we should escape any trial, any part of tribulation when the Scriptures says: "For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for his sake...Philippians 1 : 29.
    I can show you in the Scriptures how many of the Lord commandments today in the so called Christian churches are not obeyed, but, everyone is convinced that at the rapture he will go up with the Lord!!
    A small homework for everyone: Did Judas take part to the Lord's supper?? What implications does this have on myself??
    Then, let me ask you frankly: Do you live Godly?? or this is just your belief? If YOU ARE PERSECUTED IN THE CHURCH then YES you have a Godly living!! I make this clear to you, if not, your living is like those in the world as the Word is telling us very clear: "Yes, and all who desire to live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution." 2 Timothy 3 : 12.
    The Word is clear, no ifs no buts.
    I rest my case.
    Stephan

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    1. Unfortunately, it is your case and not what scripture declares. You are focusing on a few scriptural truths and deriving your doctrine from that without testing it with all of scripture.

      Christians have suffered tribulations and will suffer more in seals 1-5, then they are delivered at the sixth seal, and then God's wrath starts--we will not be here. Christians cannot be subject to God's wrath

      And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

      16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

      17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

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  30. Thank you for your replies William.
    The wisdom that somebody could poses consists solely in the Word of God isn't it? for human wisdom does not count...
    Therefore my breast plate is the Word of God and if I advocate for a cause I do it with the Word and not otherwise.
    I do not know about others but I know about myself, the better I know the WORD the stronger I am, besides: Do I need somebody else to teach me?? Answer: NO. Why? Let's seek now in the WORD!!
    "These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. But the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 1 John 2 : 26-28.
    We received the WORD OF GOD and also God sent Jesus, the light of the world, see John 8 : 12, if we abide in His light we'll never stumble, "Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path" Psalm 119.
    The Lord Himself warned us about the false teachers to abound in the last days but few are those heeding His warning but choose to follow those who are "always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Tim 3 : 7, for "..evil man and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived" 2 Tim 3 : 13.
    The Lord is not going to be upset if we do not understand exactly a teaching of His but I can assure anybody that He is going to be furious if we abide in the erroneous teaching of those false teachers.
    Besides, a stern warning can be found in the Scripture "But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them." 2 Cor 4 : 3,4.
    This is a warning I do not dare to neglect nor would I advise somebody to do so.
    I urge anybody to check the seventh trumpet careful as well reading careful what follows after the sixth seal is broken, do not forget as well wwIII combined with the sixth seal is going to cause casualties in the billions!
    " Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth." Rev 16 ; 1, for me is as explicit as it could be.
    Stephan

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    1. Yes the bowls are part of the wrath of God but the wrath of God starts at the Sixth Seal, just after the rapture.

      12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

      13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

      14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

      15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

      16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

      17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

      This is what the WORD of God says, for me it is as explicit as it could be.

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  31. So let's call back things according to what you claim William:
    First the rapture takes place.
    Then the sixth seal is opened and with this the wrath of God is unleashed upon those left.
    Is this the sequence to be?
    Stephan

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    1. 6th seal, rapture, wrath of God which consists of seal 7, the 7 trumpets and the 7 bowls. This is all explained in my book with scripture to back it up--FREE download

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  32. Few are those to know that there is a planned rapture by Illuminati, of course, a fake one.
    Those who are light in faith and do not know the Scripture will fall for it and let you guess what 's going to happen to those who choose to go for it.
    I can assure you that is mind boggling.
    Stephan

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  33. Yes I have heard they are planning a fake rapture--then the real one, just like they are planning a fake Christ--then the real one will come.

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  34. You are correct William it is at the sixth seal. There is a great global earthquake, the six5h seal is not a great local earthquake but one that shakes the foundation of the earth. The lord reveals things on his timetable not mans, even things in his holy word are hidden from man until the time he has appointed for his glory. Something the lord revealed too me today in his word, which I've read I don't know how many times and I never saw it. Matthew 27:50-54 God Bless

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  35. If you read the book of Revelation carefully, the church is raptured in chapter 4. Then the seals are opened and the rest of the judments are poured out on earth. We are not hear for any of the Tribulation. We are not appointed unto wrath. I recommend Jack Van Impe's book called Revelation Revealed. I understood the book much beter after reading it.

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    1. That is a nice story but that is not what scripture tells us.

      And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

      Just 24 elders, no mention of raptured saints, they are not seen till Rev 7

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  36. It is very sad that so many deceivers are abounding these days and they are fitting with the desire of the sheeple who want to believe that they can get to heaven walking on flowers. The theory of pre-tribulation rapture is the work of the evil one.
    Please fellows do not waste your time with such children fairy tales do not waste your money on books that tell you so because simply is ...WRONG.
    The answer is simply in the....BIBLE, that's right.
    I said it so many times above and I am going to argue it now for the last time also with the Scripture. Let's read the TRUMPET 5.
    " Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arouse out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. 3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men WHO DO NOT HAVE THE SEAL OF GOD ON THEIR FOREHEADS".
    If the rapture took place at the sixth seal and God's wrath started shortly after, why then would there in this world that sees the wrath of God be still present God's servants who we can see according to the Scripture, are protected by God Himself? I believe that it is a legitimate question and the answer is only one: the rapture takes place at the 7th trumpet. Check the Scripture.
    Stephan

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    1. I usually find that people who have to get emotional and call names do not have the evidence to back their claims. Let's see if you will accept my answer. Will there be people after the rapture who do not have the mark? Yes, think about the 144,000 not to mention the children.

      Scripture is clear; God's wrath starts after the 6th seal is opened, God's children will not be subject to God's wrath. The rapture is a blessed hope, how can it be something to look forward to at the end?

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    2. Yes, i agree. If you compare Matt 25:37-40, Isa 19:18-25, 66:18-24, Zech 14:16-21, Rom 9-11, Jhn 6:60-71, we see there will indeed be the elect, chosen by God to go through all His wrath, those who are saved and unsaved. Just as now, if we are chosen for salvation nothing can happen to us before God draws us in through His holy Spirit and we believe in the words of eternal life. And the flip side is those who will not come to salvation, nothing can happen to them if God has a purpose for them, just like Pharaoh. Great blog! Been a Pre-Wrath believer a long time, the word is spreading about the error of the Pre-Trib position. His sheep will eventually come around, it might just take awhile. :) Keep up the good work!

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    3. THX for the encouraging words. You are right that the sheep will eventually come around--an epiphany will come to all. Unfortunately they will not be prepared for those days.

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  37. can you show me the scriptures that are proof of a rapture to heaven?

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  38. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

    33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

    35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

    36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

    39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

    There it is, Seal 6, Jesus appears, rapture occurs.

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  39. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  40. Hello Mr. Frederick
    trying to post as samyahl , your program wont accept
    I recently asked a question [under Anonymous dated 0ct 18 at 11:07 am]
    I read your reply, and answered back but haven't seen it posted or replied on. I understand that you may be busy, would appreiciate a response. thanks sam

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    1. I do not know why your question did not post, retry. But let's keep it to genuine questions, this is not the forum for a debate.

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  41. from samyahl

    Thank you for responding to my question.

    However, after reading what you have offered as proof of someone being raptured to the Heavens [where the Most High dwells], I still dont see from Matt's or Luke's account of being "taken" [assuming that these are the scripture's used to propagate the rapture], that one is "taken" out of harm's way, either from the Great Tribulation, or the wrath of The Most High.

    If you look at the word "taken" in Matt 24 40-41, and Luke 17: 34-36
    in Thayer's Greek definitions

    G3880
    παραλαμβάνω
    paralambanō
    Thayer Definition:
    1) to take to, to take with one’s self, to join to one’s self
    1a) an associate, a companion
    1b) metaphorically
    1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
    1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
    2) to receive something transmitted
    2a) an office to be discharged
    2b) to receive with the mind
    2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the tradition proceeds
    2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers (used of disciples)
    Part of Speech: verb
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3844 and G2983
    Citing in TDNT: 4:11, 495

    from Strong's with tense voice and mood

    G3880
    παραλαμβάνω
    paralambanō
    par-al-am-ban'-o
    From G3844 and G2983; to receive near, that is, associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy to assume an office; figuratively to learn: - receive, take (unto, with).

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  42. if the intent would have been to physically take away, a better word may be this one that is used in Matt 24:39

    G142
    αἴρω
    airō
    Thayer Definition:
    1) to raise up, elevate, lift up
    1a) to raise from the ground, take up: stones
    1b) to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand
    1c) to draw up: a fish
    2) to take upon one’s self and carry what has been raised up, to bear
    3) to bear away what has been raised, carry off
    3a) to move from its place
    3b) to take off or away what is attached to anything
    3c) to remove
    3d) to carry off, carry away with one
    3e) to appropriate what is taken
    3f) to take away from another what is his or what is committed to him, to take by force
    3g) to take and apply to any use
    3h) to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence
    3i) cause to cease
    Part of Speech: verb
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary root
    Citing in TDNT: 1:185, 28

    The children of Israel that came out of Egypt were not allowed to enter the "Promised land" because of their unbelief

    Num 14:22 Because all those men who have seen My glory and My miracles which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted Me now these ten times, and have not listened to My voice,
    Num 14:23 surely they shall not see the land which I swore to their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked Me see it.
    Num 14:24 But My servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and has followed Me fully, I will bring him into the land into which he went. And his seed shall possess it.
    Num 14:25 (Now the Amalekites and the Canaanites lived in the valley.) Tomorrow turn and go into the wilderness by the way of the Red Sea.
    Num 14:26 And Jehovah spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying,
    Num 14:27 How long shall I bear with this evil congregation, which murmurs against Me? I have heard the murmurings of the sons of Israel which they murmur against Me.
    Num 14:28 Say to them, As I live, says Jehovah, as you have spoken in My ears, so I will do to you.
    Num 14:29 Your dead bodies shall fall in this wilderness, and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, who have murmured against Me,
    Num 14:30 you shall certainly not come into the land which I swore to make you live in, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.

    Just as the children of Israel wandered and died in the wilderness, [because of their unbelief] so too now [spiritually speaking] because of unbelief one could be left behind for not accepting "the Truth" when it is presented to them. The one who accepts "the Truths" will be [taken] further in the quest for Truth and Knowledge.

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  43. For those who believe the first four seals are already opened, when did 1/4 of earth's population die, which is the result of the four seals being opened, I dont believe any of the seals have been opened yet due to this, BUT, it is all lining up perfectly to happen.. Next year is the blood moon on the feast of trumpets, and with WW3 looming, 1/4 of earth dying, famine, and with ebola outbreak, pestilance.. and with all the hate against Christians, coming persecution, also ISIS beheading Christians... Rev 6 "7When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!”[k][l] 8 And I looked, and there was a pale green[m] horse. The horseman on it was named Death, and Hades was following after him. Authority was given to them[n] over a fourth of the earth, to kill by the sword, by famine, by plague, and by the wild animals of the earth."

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  44. The problem with most Tribulation Time Lines is the fact that they fail to place the Seal judgments in their own segment of time. You see, most everyone has no trouble working out the Trumpets and the Vials 3 1/2 years each. With the Two Witnesses testifying through the Trumpets (the ending with the abomination in the temple and the Jews fleeing to the wilderness).
    But then when theologians attempt to sprinkle the Seals on top ( like some decorative cake toppings) it never quite works out.
    The only way the Seals completely fit and line up with all prophetic scripture, is if the Seals are opened before and are separate from the Great (seven year) Tribulation.
    I will give you a few reasons why this must be. First, The Son of God is present in the thrown room to break the Seals and the bride is not yet with Him. Then when the Trumpets and Vials take place, He is away with His bride. Second, The 1/4 of the earth's population that dies, are killed by somewhat normal or natural causes. This is because all have not yet been changed from mortal to immortal. Notice that in contrast, the suffering and pain experienced by those remaining through the Great Tribulation causes people to want to die but can't. Remember some men's hearts fail just out of fear. during the Seals. Then Third, there is the destruction that comes as a result of the great Earth shift (every mountain and Island moved from their place). Folks would not just crawl out from the caves and rocks (or under ground bunkers) and go about live as usual. It would take years to get a functioning society up and running. Thus the aprox.1/2 hr (about 20 years) of silence John mentions when the seventh and final Seal is broken. This will give the 144,000 time to witness to the last of the lost that will come to a saving knowledge of Christ before The Son comes for His bride. This will also allow time for the rebuilding of the temple. And give the anti-christ a key role in the restructuring of the post shaken world.

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    1. You are greatly mistaken and have spiritualized away the plain truth of scripture. It is not as complicated as you say. Seals 1-4 before mid point. Seal 5 after mid point. Seal 6 rapture. Seal 7, trumpets and bowls in the remainder of time--all with in the 70th week.

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